‘People seeing the exploration of gender as a threat to feminism have it wrong’

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‘People seeing the exploration of gender as a threat to feminism have it wrong’

Kate, I was going to change my t-shirt before this interview, but then I remembered that you are, like me, a huge Buffy freak.

Oh my god, I really am. Your t-shirt is iconic. That’s the picture from season one, isn’t it?

It is indeed. Before we get into it, I need to know your favourite episode – besides ‘Once More, with Feeling’.

Season five is my favourite. They’re adults and totally established. Willow was in a gay relationship. It’s so sexualised with the witchcraft but in this really beautiful way. In season four, I always remembered her and Tara kissing, but they didn’t. I actually spoke to [Amber Benson] the actor who plays Tara, because they do kiss in season five, right?

Yes, in ‘The Body’, the episode Buffy’s mum dies.

It was a groundbreaking episode of TV. I love the season because you start with so much hope, and then Buffy dies. It’s so heroic and scary, and it feels like she really evolves. It’s almost like completely saying goodbye to your childhood. It is my childhood. Also, Spike’s line, “Out. For. A. Walk… Bitch” is one of my favourites. But what is my favourite episode… What’s yours?

Season five is also my favourite, so I think it has to be the finale, ‘The Gift’.

That finale is fucking amazing. You know how people felt about Nirvana? That’s what Buffy was to me. And I feel like her secret identity was such a thing for queer people, and girls. For anyone who was considered an outcast or had to pretend to be something they’re not, or if you weren’t out as a teen, there was something about Buffy that made you feel like, ‘I connect to this’.

Kate, this could honestly just turn into a Buffy interview, so we have to be careful.

We could just talk for 40 minutes and then start a new Zoom and talk about Buffy for another 40 minutes.

I am so down, Kate. So, how does it feel to have your first album out in six years?

It’s flown by, really. I finished touring in 2019, then we started season four of GLOW and then got shut down for the pandemic. The last few years have been really figuring out my team because I got all these offers from labels and management through TikTok. Isn’t that crazy? It was like a flashback to my MySpace days. It took me time to find the right manager. I’ve never had a good manager, but I do now.

What did that decision look like, because I know in the past you’ve spoken about your difficulties with record labels, as well as the gross men at the top?

It’s a very shady industry. There’s no HR department or someone to go to in times of trouble. The people you’re supposed to go to in times of trouble are the ones that fuck you over; a bunch of, mostly, coke-heads that wanted to hang out with bands by being their manager. Part of that is the nature of the work, because it’s at night time, an environment that’s not professional. There’s a wildness in that that should stay, because music spaces are exciting and not traditional, but we do need things to change. I feel so lucky to finally be in this place. I’m starting fresh in a weird way with the label, agent and new management. They’re sane, passionate and thoughtful. It’s so cool to feel good about a new team because they’re just music nerds who love music. They’re investing in me as a person and an artist, so that feels really safe.

Sonically, 9 Sad Symphonies feels light and hopeful, but the lyrics are quite the opposite. When I heard ‘Millions of Heartbeats’ I honestly thought, ‘Fucking hell,’ as I really resonated with the existential themes. Was that intentional, that dichotomy between the production and lyrics?

I like that juxtaposition with music sounding joyful. 60s girl groups always did that well. ‘Stop! In The Name of Love’ by The Supremes is at every wedding, yet it’s about a woman begging her husband not to cheat on her anymore. [‘Millions of Heartbeats’] is about the feeling of living in these catastrophic times, where we are constantly reading something fucking insane. I lost a spark for life, and I’ve always been a really sparky person. It’s a weird feeling to be like, ‘The gas is on so low and I just can’t turn it up.’

When people ask how you are, you don’t want to be like, ‘I’m depressed and I don’t understand my purpose.’ You’re getting numb and disassociating because you’re like, ‘How do I have hope in all of this?’ It was important to start the record that way. It’s like ‘Going Through the Motions’ from ‘Once More, with Feeling’. Buffy’s like, ‘I’m slaying after being expelled from heaven, what the fuck is the point in all of this?’

I think about that video, ‘The Pale Blue Dot’, where Earth looks tiny, like a speck of dust in the universe. It’s the feeling I get when you look at the stars; everything matters and nothing matters. Yet here we are, fighting over somebody elbowing you on the tube when there’s war and bloodshed. We have this one life, as far as we know. It’s grappling with that like, ‘No, I need to try’. Earth is really fucking beautiful and it’s amazing to be alive. And there’s a version where I didn’t make it this far. I just turned 37, and not everyone gets to turn 37. It’s a privilege to age, grow and keep pushing forward. These are the themes I grappled with on the album, that lack of purpose.

Is it weird that I’m currently at a point where all of what you just said makes absolute sense to me?

No, I’m glad. I feel relieved because sometimes I’m like, ‘Is this too much for people?’ I think we’ve got it so wrong with branding and individualism and identity on social media driving the self forward for maximum profit. What actually feeds your soul is community, and that’s why I think queer people are a lot more in touch. I was talking about this with my trans friends, because there’s actual safety in community. There’s less in-built community with straight people because socialising is about… I mean, go to a fucking wedding. Everything’s tied to a woman’s purity of being sold to her husband by her dad. I have progressive friends but I’ll go to their wedding like, ‘Are you kidding me?’

Jane Goodall says you have to think locally, and that’s how you make a difference in the world. You’re one person, but you really fucking matter and your voice can impact so many lives. Local community work is really important in saving democracy. This guy, Robert D. Putnam, says you cannot save democracy by just focusing on saving democracy. I think about that on social media, where we all need to become the news.

There is a thing about protest and spreading awareness, right? But there’s also socialising and joining a community. He tells people to join a club because you’ll be instantly participating in democracy without realising it. I love that idea because we’re so focused on screaming at each other in really adolescent ways, and it’s helping push people to the far right. Twitter has really helped the far right and fascism, and who’s in charge of Twitter? Who is the glass ceiling of Twitter?

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